Ford Kuga Owners Club Forums banner

Thinking of a change, but not just yet!

9K views 67 replies 14 participants last post by  Fillco 
#1 ·
I know the title is a “WTF” saying.

But been an avid petrol head and yes I can say that as Jeremy Clarkson said so if you’ve owned an Alfa Romeo, to which I’ve owned two. A 156 and a Brera, both nice but the first had more suspension joints as the factory could make as it was always knocking and the Brera, well wow! The electrics were defo haunted and they had a mind of their own. Nice car until the power seat would start to push forward and lift up towards the steering wheel! Thought it was “Christine “ from Stephen Kings film at one point, reincarnated into an Alfa.

Anyway and as usual, off topic.

Fossil fuel cars are well demonised and more and more manufacturers are going down the electrification route.

So, I was wondering........we’ve had a the Vignale almost a year now (flown by) best one we’ve had but we bought it 11 months old at a stupidly low price from new.

So I’m hoping that in another year, that’ll be two years into a three year PCP deal, if any of the new Hybrid Kugas will be the same. I’m assuming not as they are a completely different set up. I haven’t seen one yet and they won’t be out in the showrooms TIL crimbo time if not January. I’m not sure of the looks as yet but I could be swayed by an hybrid but not a full one! The mileage is just not there on a full charge and we do like to do long runs, France etc. Even having a couple of hamster on board running in their wheels won’t help.

So and even tho some fossil fuel will be used, I quite like the idea of a part leccy car.

What I dont understand if the engine options. Why on earth, on a hybrid car, designed to save the earth and mankind would you fit a 2.2 petrol engine to charge it up. Seems to defeat the object, doesn’t it?

Now here’s a question for the more technology advanced in the forum, why can’t they fit a smaller donkey engine, I was going to say a “lister engine” but I can imagine loads asking what that is. It is a small industrial engine designed to power via a large flywheel, barges, hay bailing machines etc etc.

I think there is a 1.5 eco petrol engine, so why can’t we go even lower a 1ltr and I’m sure with the appropriate gearing it would cope charging the vehicle only, rather than be used to mechanically drive it as well.

So I’m hoping that in time to come, as in within two years there cost will be low enough to make the jump across.

Can someone, brighter than me, please do the “math” as to, how they get the stupid high mpg for hybrid, like the PHEv etc. I know real world it’s not the same and as the new regs stipulates real world, I still wonder how it’s done.

So, just my thought for a lazy Saturday afternoon.

Comments all of a kind welcome and a challenge has been set for the mathematicians amongst us. Crack on!

Phill
 
See less See more
#2 ·
I shall, as will many, be driving a climate killer for many years to come.


No alternative fuel vehicle gives me anything like the range I need for our touring holidays (1200 miles in Wales last week).


The hybrids are moving on but the charing infrastructure is simply not there for aplug-in variant for the masses.




I was looking at the RAV4 hybrid but why on earth does it need a 2.5 litre petrol engine?


All of the PHEV and self-charging hybrids have a 'electric only' range of under 50 miles so, my first question is 'what's the point?'
 
#3 ·
I agree Nigel and it’s the range that a killer for me as well.

I know we have to do our bit for the planet but when the USA and other large countries like China seem not be giving a hoot, it just seems like we should all be behind it. Oh well the life cycle goes on.
 
#4 ·
I COULD have an electric car with a half-decent range (It's 270 miles for me door-to-door to the place we stay at in West Wales).


I don't however have £70,000 for a Jaguar iPace and you couldn't give me a Tesla!
 
#8 ·
So the general consensus from all the comments is this is an article massively skewed towards ICE and fossil fuels.
Another case of "Lies, damned lies & statistics"
 
#7 ·
At the moment electric or Hybrid in LEZ or ULEZ zones benefit cities who have adopted them at the moment, if we could charge the batteries from renewable or domestic renewable our ecology may also benefit.
I do like the mpg these Hybrid achieve, they are out of this world. Manufacturers had fun inventing figures for purely fossil fuel derivatives, but its game won with an Hybrid.

Unlike private motoring, some Hybrid buses in London can achieve a 30-70% improvement on mpg, from just under 5mpg to over 7mpg, where the diesel is there to charge and supplement the battery, which is not normally recharged overnight and Geofencing is used to ensure no diesel is used in ULEZ and NEZ (No emission) otherwise the bus company are penalised.
 
#9 ·
I'd always be concerned about the battery life. It's probably going to affect resale values too (noting a few manufacturers give a 8 year battery warranty.) It's going to be one huge addition to your running costs if the worst happens and it's not covered by a warranty.



Then there's the concern of something like this occurring in an accident https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-fire-explosion-moscow-what-we-know-so-far/ .



I was watching the new(ish?) Mythbusters Junior show last night and they did a thing on if Lithium batteries could explode/ self combust in a rubbish truck. They set off the fire by using a metal prong to pierce one small battery pack and it very quickly caught fire... https://twitter.com/mythbusters/status/1085627866732285958?lang=en
 
#10 ·
And the scourge of the Diesel, where its been said that the air coming out of the latest Euro6 and 6.5 is cleaner than what going in.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NigelB
#11 ·
I'm another one confused as to why the petrol engines have to be so big in a PHEV.

Theres somebody on the Tiguan forum who's swapped to a new RAV4. His urban economy was fairly good but on a motorway run he only got 47mpg. My diesel DSG Tiguan returns 55mpg on the motorway.

The performance figures from these 225bhp+ hybrids do look appealing though.
 
#12 ·
Man made "Global Warming / "Climate Change"/ "New Scary Catchphrase" is a mythin order to make a huge sums of money going forward for those in the highest eschelons of power.

If as they have been saying for years, oil is running out fast, they those with greed as an agenda need to replace the income stream somehow.

Even more profitable as the most of the sustainable energy is free (once the infrastructure is in place), which will have been paid for by household energy bill payers.

The investors will probably have already investes in battery tech at an early stage, so need to peddle the GW/CC line in order to increase theit investment over the long game.

Jees, sound like "The Ike" LOL
 
#15 ·
They need to make them cheaper to be competitive and what's going to happen to all the waste batteries when they are not any good. It's bad enough having to pay for a replacement battery for a cordless drill never mind for an electric car. Electric cars as we have them at present are not the way to go in my opinion. And as keithmac says, a company tax loophole.
 
#18 ·
A friend of mine works for Rolls Royce, they pumped millions into Hydrogen Cell research then wrote it off as none viable from what he was saying.

A few years back now so maybe things have changed a bit but doubtful.

It'll end up being a nuclear cell fitted to cars after the fuels run out imho..
 
#19 ·
#20 ·
Hydrogen production and transport requires huge amounts of energy (electrolysis of water, liquefaction and then keeping it at -252C (20 degrees above absolute zero)
 
#21 ·
Did you read the link I post above? https://www.csiro.au/en/News/News-releases/2018/CSIRO-tech-accelerates-hydrogen-vehicle-future


CSIRO Chief Executive Larry Marshall was one of the first to ride in the Toyota Mirai and Hyundai Nexo vehicles powered by ultra-high purity hydrogen, produced in Queensland using CSIRO’s membrane technology.
This technology will pave the way for bulk hydrogen to be transported in the form of ammonia, using existing infrastructure, and then reconverted back to hydrogen at the point of use.
It has the potential to fill the gap in the technology chain to supply fuel cell vehicles around the world with low-emissions hydrogen sourced from Australia.
The membrane separates ultra-high purity hydrogen from ammonia, while blocking all other gases.
It links hydrogen production, distribution and delivery in the form of a modular unit that can be used at, or near, a refuelling station.
This means that the transportation and storage of hydrogen – currently a complex and relatively expensive process – is simplified, allowing bulk hydrogen to be transported economically and efficiently in the form of liquid ammonia.
 
#22 ·
What happened to LPG or gas power?

Going back about 15+ years, there was talk of using natural gas (Mains gas for us in the UK), hiring a compressor off the gas board, that will compress the gas at a higher pressure than mains gas into your car. Was available in Canada.

But open to abuse and lack of taxation quashed that idea I suppose.

Round my way there is a big 'refuel' gas point to do this for trucks, but not cars.

Our gas supply is containing more fermented 'brown' gas from animal wastes and human poo.
If we can tap into that building that appears on brown sauce bottles, plenty of S**t to ferment there.

Back to thread: What defines a hybrid? Able to power its self by 100% battery power - No defined distance..
Then you can go back to normal drive - in any engine you want, - hybrid MOT does not test the fossil fuel engine emissions.

So if you spending £50k on a hybrid, having a 3hp lawn mower engine to charge the battery and waiting at a lay by while it charges just won't work.

A hybrid has 'to be exciting to drive' when the electric power runs out, coupled with the company car tax fiddle, they are just normal car taking a battery & a motor for a ride.


100% electric if doing short runs, or regular runs. The internal combustion is staying for a while, what fuel / blend of fuel we put in it will change.
 
#23 ·
Can recommend this book - available in e-book.

Oil Apocalypse by Vernon Coleman. Covers all things about the black stuff, and renewables and future possibilities.

Its a eye opening read, so using your led light to save the planet, when the US navy filling up the latest ship...
 
#25 ·
Someone put a snapshot of the amount of Aeroplanes over the UK, something absurd like 1200?
That was maybe me a while back.

The fact that the powers that be are pushing the use of EV and PHEV for the future with no mention of the plan to reduce air travel, probably means they wan the masses to adopt renewable options for their daily activities so as to offset their use of fossil fuels and international galavanting.

Lets face it, how many of the rich and famous attend meetings via air travel when when have the best ever remote conferncing tech, that there has ever been?

Also, look at Emma Thompson, a few months ago on the pink boat banging on about the environment with those Extinction Rebellion idiots after flying over 5000miles to attend the rally.

If she ever had any credibility, that was gone the moment she got on that plane!

Hypocrites, the lot of them!

The voice inside is now saying: "cyalm down, cyalm down". LOL
 
#26 ·
Could be the same body of people pushing EV and PHEV who were pushing diesel cars at the government in the late 90's and that's why they made it more attractive to buy a diesel car from 2001 by reducing the amount of VED in respect of diesel cars when compared to a similar engine and power output of a petrol car. Now you can't tell me that all those nasties that diesels put out (pre-DPF) were not known about by those clever people in government and the even cleverer people who advise them. Clever marketing for whatever reason but somehow I don't think electric is going to work until such time as we can all get in our cars and not have to worry about how far can we go without a plug in.
 
#28 ·
The non secret is producing hydrogen by renewable's I guess.
 
#29 ·
I think they have stayed away from hydrogen with it being quite a dangerous product. Not that petrol isn't of course.
 
#31 ·
There ya go....I thought I’d just put on a few words about what the future holds with regards to any change in vehicle ownership.

Well done peeps, there are lots of informative posts on what I thought was a simple, “hey here’s what my thoughts are” and members have responded with some very in-depth technical points, most of which I wouldn’t have even bothered about or have any knowledge of.

For me, life is a bit simpler than than. Is it cost effective or just a gimmick. As to wether the batteries will last several years, again not an issues as I’d prob move on to the next chapter of motoring. Hydrogen, we’ll cant see that happening, look what happened to the “Hindenburg”

lPG seems to work but never seems to get pushed unless your converting a gas guzzler (Range Rover etc)

Going back to the first post I put on, it just doesn’t make sense putting a larger CC engine in to power / charge the batteries.

Oh well, thanks and that was a good post. ??
 
#34 ·
It's like back around the early 1900's, apparently there were steam, electric and petrol engine options. No guessing which one won! wink:


In Australia our electricity network can struggle on hot days to keep up with demand. Imagine what's going to happen if plug in electric vehicles start getting sold in large volumes....
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top