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2013 2.0L Diesel Titanium X Powershift
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,

Looking for some advice - my MK2 Titanium X Auto has been off the road for 9 weeks now and nothing its getting done about it because the local Ford dealer, the dealer I bought the car from and the finance company are all too busy pointing fingers rather than doing anything to sort the car. I've had the car over 11 months and between the current issues and having to put a replacement gearbox into the car back in March, the car has only actually be drivable for 7 months.

9 weeks ago when I was pulling out of a junction, the car made a bang. It still drove, but there was lots of metal on metal grinding noises and knocking. Took it to my local mechanic, who told me the transfer box was in bits and had sheared from the gearbox casing and the propshaft end was snapped. He also suggested the gearbox was potentially damaged too, but didn't have the resources to diagnose the gearbox. So, I spoke to dealer as I thought this all may have been caused by a failed repair of the gearbox back in March.

Since then, it's been messy. But in short, I am now being told that my local Ford dealer (who installed the gearbox in March) cannot tell me if the gearbox is damaged or not. So, going on their diagnosis (which only confirmed exactly what the local mechanic had already said) my warranty company will not cover the cost of replacing the gearbox - only the transfer box. Unless I pay to get the car transported 150miles to my nearest transmission specialist to get a proper diagnosis - which I can't afford, being an apprentice on crap money.

Apparently my local Ford dealer cannot diagnose the gearbox because they cannot drive the car. The local mechanic has suggested getting the transfer box replaced under warranty and then converting the car to 2WD - hopefully avoiding the propshaft costs and would allow Ford's "technicians" to drive the car and diagnose the gearbox.

Has anyone done this before? Or anyone have any suggestions about how it could be done?

Thanks in advance.
 

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Mr. Happy
Kuga 2ltr AWD Titanium X, Midnight Sky.
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1,672 Posts
My issue would be Insurance?
Would your insurance company insure a modified vehicle? and at what cost if they did?
I'm sure there's some one on here that can give you better advice tho.
 

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Registered
2013 2.0L Diesel Titanium X Powershift
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5 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
My issue would be Insurance?
Would your insurance company insure a modified vehicle? and at what cost if they did?
I'm sure there's some one on here that can give you better advice tho.
True. Hadn't actually considered the insurance - thank you. I will look into it before I go ahead with any modifications.
 

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Moderator
2016 Kuga Titanium 2.0l EcoBoost
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3,506 Posts
Is it a diesel? That failure has happened to a couple of people where the PTO bolts come loose/ fall out and then it breaks the PTO casing. It only seems to happen with the diesel models.

I don't recall anyone suffering any gearbox issues from that failure, it's usually a case of repairing/ replacing the transfer casing. Searching on here should find more info.
 

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Super Moderator and Mr Grumpy
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6,706 Posts
@KyleMac99 - Welcome to the forum. Please have a read of the first ink below and add your car's details to the signature box so we know exactly what you have. I would guess you have a 2013 / 2014 car with the 163 engine. I can only assume that as you don't say exactly which model you have and the early powershift gearboxes have been known to be problematic due the design.

We have also had instances of the transfer box becoming loose as @murcod says above which would be my guess as to why that has failed. Responsibility would then rely with the company who changed the gearbox. Proving that they didn't torque the bolts up correctly or they knew there was a problem with the transfer unit when they replaced the gearbox, will be hard to prove. A specialist independent engineer would be able to assess why it has failed.

From a legal point of view, and you should really take specialist independent advice as the car you bought has not been fit for purpose. As you bought the car with finance, you have additional rights. You need to establish what those rights are. The second link below may be useful.

Welcome to the Forum, Please Read | Ford Kuga Owners Club Forums

What Are My Rights If I Bought a Faulty Car on Finance? (voluntarytermination.com)

For what it's worth I advise any member wishing to buy an early powershift, i.e. on a 13 or 14 plate to choose something else or a later car. Whilst we have members who have had no issues, the ones who have had all have the same fault and the bolts coming loose on the transfer box has also been reported on the forum.
 

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Registered
2013 2.0L Diesel Titanium X Powershift
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5 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
@KyleMac99 - Welcome to the forum. Please have a read of the first ink below and add your car's details to the signature box so we know exactly what you have. I would guess you have a 2013 / 2014 car with the 163 engine. I can only assume that as you don't say exactly which model you have and the early powershift gearboxes have been known to be problematic due the design.

We have also had instances of the transfer box becoming loose as @murcod says above which would be my guess as to why that has failed. Responsibility would then rely with the company who changed the gearbox. Proving that they didn't torque the bolts up correctly or they knew there was a problem with the transfer unit when they replaced the gearbox, will be hard to prove. A specialist independent engineer would be able to assess why it has failed.

From a legal point of view, and you should really take specialist independent advice as the car you bought has not been fit for purpose. As you bought the car with finance, you have additional rights. You need to establish what those rights are. The second link below may be useful.

Welcome to the Forum, Please Read | Ford Kuga Owners Club Forums

What Are My Rights If I Bought a Faulty Car on Finance? (voluntarytermination.com)

For what it's worth I advise any member wishing to buy an early powershift, i.e. on a 13 or 14 plate to choose something else or a later car. Whilst we have members who have had no issues, the ones who have had all have the same fault and the bolts coming loose on the transfer box has also been reported on the forum.
@smartguy69 Thanks a lot for the very helpful response. I have now updated my signature with the details of my car - you were right, 2013 163hp.

That's encouraging to hear that it may be the garage that fitted the gearbox who are potentially liable. I suppose going on that, it is probably going to be worth my while getting the car sent off for a specialist diagnosis.

I am currently in the process of getting a solicitor involved to advise me on my rights and help get some form of compensation for the hassle this car has caused. Though, if it does turn out to be the case that the garage who fitted the gearbox are at fault - then I will have good grounds to try and reject the car on.

Yep, I think I will definitely be doing a bit more research before my next car!

Do you think it is likely that this will reoccur again once I have the car repaired?
 

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Super Moderator and Mr Grumpy
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6,706 Posts
@smartguy69 Thanks a lot for the very helpful response. I have now updated my signature with the details of my car - you were right, 2013 163hp.

That's encouraging to hear that it may be the garage that fitted the gearbox who are potentially liable. I suppose going on that, it is probably going to be worth my while getting the car sent off for a specialist diagnosis.

I am currently in the process of getting a solicitor involved to advise me on my rights and help get some form of compensation for the hassle this car has caused. Though, if it does turn out to be the case that the garage who fitted the gearbox are at fault - then I will have good grounds to try and reject the car on.

Yep, I think I will definitely be doing a bit more research before my next car!

Do you think it is likely that this will reoccur again once I have the car repaired?
@keithmac is the best one to answer really on the gearbox. I am only relating what Keith has previously said but I do have a practical mind and looking at what is inside the gearbox you can easily judge why they fail.

We have members who have had no issues, but the ones who have have all had the same fault which to me puts it's down to the gearbox isn't up to the job and possibly made worse if used for towing. That's just my opinion but there is a reason why Ford changed the design certainly to suit the Euro 6 Kuga that puts out 180PS.

I wouldn't have thought too much about researching a car before I bought it, certainly in the modern era. I was so close to buying an automatic on a 14 plate and consider myself very lucky that I was in two minds over the colour and bought a manual instead.
 

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Registered
2013 Titanium X with 2017 Powershift Conversion.
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1,820 Posts
As long as the PTU propshaft end is self sealing (can't remember off hand) you could run it with no propshaft.

You can't run without the PTU or its coupling as you'll have a massive oil leak!.

Seems Ford haven't torqued the PTU mounting bolts up correctly (they are a pain to access but that's no excuse).

Normally the only damage is already visible (wrecked cases, PTU mounting points on the Powershift gearbox).

If Ford have supplied a remanufactured gearbox it'll be pretty poor, did it have metal tag on it?..

Whatever happens, when you get it back sell it!, the 6DCT450 is dire reliability wise. If it's on finance I would try and reject it personally.
 

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Registered
2013 2.0L Diesel Titanium X Powershift
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
As long as the PTU propshaft end is self sealing (can't remember off hand) you could run it with no propshaft.

You can't run without the PTU or its coupling as you'll have a massive oil leak!.

Seems Ford haven't torqued the PTU mounting bolts up correctly (they are a pain to access but that's no excuse).

Normally the only damage is already visible (wrecked cases, PTU mounting points on the Powershift gearbox).

If Ford have supplied a remanufactured gearbox it'll be pretty poor, did it have metal tag on it?..

Whatever happens, when you get it back sell it!, the 6DCT450 is dire reliability wise. If it's on finance I would try and reject it personally.
Thanks @keithmac, I will maybe try and get it back round to a half decent mechanic and get it up on the ramp for a look.

It was a remanufactured gearbox they fitted, I never got to see it before they fitted it, so I'm not sure if there was a metal tag on it.

I have been trying to get a solicitor to help me reject the car for weeks now, but due to needing legal aid, I cannot get help. Seemingly if I go through the Financial Service Ombudsman to reject the car, I would only have a 30% chance of success. I think I will just have to try and reject it myself.

A nice big tree accidentally falling onto the car would go down very nicely right now!

Thanks for all the advice.
 

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2013 Titanium X with 2017 Powershift Conversion.
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Unfortunately if it's a remanufactured gearbox supplied by Ford it won't be the best.

The issue though is did they tighten the PTU bolts to correct torque?, doesn't seem like they did imho.
 

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2013 2.0L Diesel Titanium X Powershift
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Unfortunately if it's a remanufactured gearbox supplied by Ford it won't be the best.

The issue though is did they tighten the PTU bolts to correct torque?, doesn't seem like they did imho.
Unsure - I spoke to a transmission specialist the other day who was of a similar opinion to yourself. However, he said that they had most likely overtightened and under-oiled, which may have lead to the bolts shattering under the pressure. Either way though, he said there is no way of proving that it is Ford who are at fault.
 

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2013 Titanium X with 2017 Powershift Conversion.
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It's highly unlikely the internals of the gearbox have been damaged, if the casings (PTU mounts) are salvagable I'd do a stud and nut conversion and fit a new PTU (and Prop) and see how you go.

Amazing how all these PTUs just fall off, it's not an uncommon fault.
 
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