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RPMs on start up

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    Posted: 12 Sep 2017 at 9:06am
Can somebody explain how the RPMs affect the startup procceedure....
As this morning the RPMs where hardly hitting the 500 and thus dropping back.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ozekuga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2017 at 9:15am
The RPM's don't effect the start up procedure.
When you go to start the engine, the starter motor cranks the engine over up to approximately 4-500 RPM. Hopefully the engine will then fire up if it has the correct fuel and air ratio and the fuel is injected at the correct time.
What appears to be happening with your wifes car is the engine initially fires up as the starter motor cranks the engine over, but then loses the fuel injection pressure so the engine just stalls instead of picking up RPM to settle at the idle speed.
This is still the same problem you have been reporting for the last few months.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fillco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2017 at 9:16am
Was it struggling to run and sound slow too. Short of fuel!

I'd have thought at 500 RPM it would have stalled.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2017 at 1:54pm
Just sounded like nothing was happening at all.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2017 at 2:59pm
Originally posted by Fillco Fillco wrote:

Was it struggling to run and sound slow too. Short of fuel!

I'd have thought at 500 RPM it would have stalled.


Going through the start proceedure the RPM needle just seems to get above 250 and below 500 and it just drops that is what ive noticed...

Going back to a intank pump possible problem with the non return valve wouldnt the lack of pressure show up on the system !

Plus lets say it is the intank tank pump is there anything that i should be looking at under the hood if i get the missus to start it in the morning!
Isnt the intank pump before the fuel filter !
If the fuel is being drawn back towards the pump where would the least amount of fuel pressure be....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2017 at 3:37pm
According to the guy at stranrear ford he said it would be worth whike having a look at the started motor for metalic bits in it if no joy then it could be a damaged flywheel.......

Lost on that.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fillco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2017 at 3:56pm
Well Ant I think everything that could be thought of has been.

For the RPM to indicate at all, the starter motor must have been turning the engine over but you say sounded like nothing was happening at all ?? The starter motor is fine if its turning the engine over. How long are you seeing 500 RPM or less. Doesn't the starter motor automatically stop turning if the engine has fired/started which I guess is above normal idle RPM etc

Fundamental, the engine starts but does not run. This manifestation has not changed.

I think we are all surprised that the mechanic/technicians who have ventured to look at this have no idea what it could be.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2017 at 5:16pm
Im going to film it in the morning just incase it dont start weather pending.......

Im seeing the 500rpm or less for a split second.....
Its like you hear it crank but as its about to catch (hit the 500rpms) it just drops instantly.....

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2017 at 5:23pm
I found these two old videos.....
Watch the rev counter....

https://youtu.be/GcgARXBp-nY

https://youtu.be/gNqJ8OvMdIk
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fillco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2017 at 7:47pm
Yep I remember the second one. Cant see why an experienced mechanic should not be able to check to see whether its fuel starvation (and whether fuel is being 'stopped' once its starts) or its not enough there to start with. The fact it does start straight away even on a restart suggest fuel is there immediately, so is something actually shutting the engine OFF? This was suggested before of course.

I have no idea how the shutdown takes place so cant offer any suggestions there, but again a mechanic particularly a Ford mechanic/technician should have this thought running through his mind when he sees that. Have they witnessed this, if not put the video on memory stick and let them see it.


Edited by Fillco - 12 Sep 2017 at 7:48pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ozekuga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Sep 2017 at 11:39pm
Having viewed them both I still think it's the low pressure side of the fuel supply.
Why not get hold of another in tank fuel pump and swap it out, using an independent mechanic.
It would probably be cheaper than spending a few hours trying to diagnose this problem further.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2017 at 11:30am
Cheers chaps.....
Ive told the missus to bite the bullit and have a new intank fuel pump fitted.....
Just had a gander on the internet and non come up.....only the pressure pump.....

Any ideas where we can get one from....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ozekuga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2017 at 9:41pm
Have you tried a breakers yard, I would imagine it will be the same pump for 2.0L Diesel Mondeo and the Focus.
Ask the independent garage if they can source one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 2017 at 8:59am
Last night i had to go out to kuga to look for something that the missus dropped...
So i started her up and like i have said before that the RPM needle just sat on the top edge of the 750 mark....
So when i went back inside i said to the missus that the kuga wont start first time in the morning thus exaplining about the rpm needle...

And true to form this morning the kuga didnt fire up first time the rpm hit 500rpm and it almost started but the rpm Needle dropped back..
The second attempt started straight away and the rpm needle sat higher above the 750rpm marker.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 2017 at 10:14am
Originally posted by Ozekuga Ozekuga wrote:

Have you tried a breakers yard, I would imagine it will be the same pump for 2.0L Diesel Mondeo and the Focus.
Ask the independent garage if they can source one.


I have found new genuine kuga sender unit online.......

When i looked at the photos it looked totally different to what i was expecting......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ozekuga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 2017 at 10:09pm
Originally posted by Ant Ant wrote:

 

I have found new genuine kuga sender unit online.......

When i looked at the photos it looked totally different to what i was expecting......

Have you bought it or are you looking for another?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 2017 at 3:17pm
Originally posted by Ozekuga Ozekuga wrote:


Originally posted by Ant Ant wrote:

 

I have found new genuine kuga sender unit online.......

When i looked at the photos it looked totally different to what i was expecting......


Have you bought it or are you looking for another?


No whe havent bought it yet......
I want a part number first just to be sure...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ozekuga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Sep 2017 at 9:45pm
Ant, the unit you are saying looked completely different than what you were expecting, was that called a sender unit?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2017 at 9:46am
Aye its the sender unit.......
Im after the part number for it.......

All the sender units ive seen are like a canister shape if you know what i mean....

I will try n add a picture if i can......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2017 at 10:42am
Confused now....
Managed to get a part number for the sender unit from evans halshaw 1633070..
But i have now also found an official ford part seller that is selling the sender unit but its a different part number 1582806....

Which is the correct one........


Sorted it....
The official part number is 1633070 and cant be bought from anywhere but ford...
Non in stock at their depot and its on order which could take anything from 2wks to 2mths....
Cost £305 and that incs vat.....

Edited by Ant - 23 Sep 2017 at 11:14am
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