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AWD Malfunction / Haldex servicing info

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2018 at 11:53am
@Tbone - I got my pump from Haldexparts.com - they answered my question/s quickly and have appropriate parts noted as being Ford Kuga
Mk1 TDCI 163 AWD Titanium X Electric White - with almost matching bumpers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 2018 at 4:06pm
Many thanks for your info it is very much appreciated

as for Ford, they are NOT fit for Purpose, there sole purpose in the car building game is to milk as much ££££ out of a car as possible their after sales makes them millions IMO my2009 AWD Tit is at the end of its shelf life, unless I'm willing to spend spend spend, cant sell her cause shes not working right, well could sell her but wont get much would I, and as for Haynes they need to get a manual sorted !  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2018 at 8:13pm
Got to agree with KugaBuga, I do reckon all the gen 4 pumps are the same, the only difference is the length of cable to the control unit, some long some short, looking at the actual connector they all seem to be the same,

below is a reply from Tobias at Haldex Sweden , reading through it a few times I have sort of concluded what I've said above, however I have asked for further info.

Hi Toni,

 

Some parts are interchangeable but some are not between the different OEMs. As you specific ask about the pump and if you can use it from a Skoda to a Volvo or vice versa the answer is no. There are different length of the cables and also some clips on the VW cable to fix the cable against the coupling house. There are not these clips on the Volvo pump as the cable is much shorter and no need to fasten the cable. There are also some components inside the pump that is different in a VW and a Volvo pump. But the pumps within the VW-group are the same, like Audi, Skoda, Seat and VW. But some OEMs have changed generation at different model years and also could have different generations in different models during the same year.

 

Regards,

Tobias

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2018 at 11:28am
I ended up buying a second hand pump for the Kuga, My question now is...........do I need to have the Module re-configured  ? and if so how is it done ?

cheers in advance 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote martinw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2018 at 8:53pm
Hoping someone who has done this job on their car (same as mine) can help:
My car has the Gen 4 Haldex and the larger flexible coupling on the prop, meaning that the prop has to be disconnected to remove the Haldex pump.
Arranged with a mechanic friend of mine to use the lift in his garage and give me a hand disconnecting the prop.
Took along a copy of "haldexrepairs" instructions on how to do the job and had all the right tools including puller.
Followed the instructions without problems until we reached step 14. Disconnected the bolts holding the flange on the rear flexible coupling (had already disconnected the front prop coupling and pushed the prop up and forward ) then tried to pull the prop forward to disconnect from the coupling - no go !
BTW - had also disconnected the brackets in Step 10 - even unbolted the centre prop U/J cage.
Two of us pulling on it, tried to lever it out, tap it out - no movement.
Pulled back the flange which was secured by the 6 bolts (before removal). This outer flange actually secures a rubber boot/dust/grease seal. On pulling back the boot and scr*ping away some of the grease, revealed a CV joint inset in the coupling which appeared to be held in place by another flange. It appeared that it was the inner flange and CV joint (connected to the end of the prop) that was stopping us pulling the prop forward. We tried levering this inner flange out - no joy. Even asked another mechanic from a neighbouring workshop to help out with any ideas - nothing.
So could not reach the 24mm nut (presumably under the CV joint) shown in step 15 of the instructions and use the puller to remove the coupling. Eventually without a solution we had to reassemble everything.

So question for someone who has done this job (or seen it done) : How do you get this CV joint/inner flange out to access the nut and release the coupling ??

As other people seem to have managed this step without problem, appears there are maybe differences between various models/engine/transmission components which is why this step is not detailed in the haldexrepairs/Ford instructions.

Any help/suggestions greatly appreciated.    

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2018 at 4:07pm
you can gain access to the gen 4 pump without taking the prop off.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote martinw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2018 at 7:44pm
Sorry Tbone, but when the Gen 4 pump is combined with the larger "doughnut" flexible coupling (as on my 2.5T auto) there is not enough clearance to remove (or refit) the pump without damaging it.
This is the reason why we are trying to remove the propshaft (and flexible coupling) as detailed in the haldexrepairs/Ford instructions.

Please see the post from Orbit24 (26 Oct 2016) in the "gen 4 haldex oil and filter service" thread which includes a photo of the minimal clearance between the pump and the (larger) coupling on the 2.5T variant.
Unfortunately Orbit 24 does not detail how they removed the propshaft (and attached CV joint) from the coupling. Just that they used an air wrench (presumably to remove the 24mm nut shown in step 15 of the instructions). But you have to remove the prop and CV joint before you get to that stage.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2018 at 8:06pm
yes I see your issue, my flange clearance is more then the 3mm you have, I managed without any problem to change the oil, filter and pump without ant prop removal. sorry I cannot help , good luck with the task  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mimietti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2018 at 10:17am
martinw, I have exactly same problem. The flanges has rusted together so heavily that I can't disconnect them either. The mechanic said that it might break the propshaft if more force is used. Before next service I plan to inject some rust removal aerosol around the connection so hopefully it will come off. Hopefully it will not break the propshaft...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andywsr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2018 at 11:55am
Originally posted by Tbone Tbone wrote:

I ended up buying a second hand pump for the Kuga, My question now is...........do I need to have the Module re-configured  ? and if so how is it done ?

cheers in advance 


Hi, you don't need to reprogram the module. The pump is plug and play. I hope your second hand pump is in good order. I used an AOC Pump from eBay. Been on 2 years without fault.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tarmo120 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2018 at 12:29pm
Originally posted by mimietti mimietti wrote:

martinw, I have exactly same problem. The flanges has rusted together so heavily that I can't disconnect them either. The mechanic said that it might break the propshaft if more force is used. Before next service I plan to inject some rust removal aerosol around the connection so hopefully it will come off. Hopefully it will not break the propshaft...


There should be 2 holes between the bolt holes in the Haldex side of coupling flange. You can use a pin and hammer to take it off. As far as I remember, the holes were not threaded.
Mine was rusty also. You can try to pull the driveshaft to the front, but that means you still need to disconnect the front end of driveshaft.

Originally posted by Andywsr Andywsr wrote:

Originally posted by Tbone Tbone wrote:

I ended up buying a second hand pump for the Kuga, My question now is...........do I need to have the Module re-configured  ? and if so how is it done ?

cheers in advance 


Hi, you don't need to reprogram the module. The pump is plug and play. I hope your second hand pump is in good order. I used an AOC Pump from eBay. Been on 2 years without fault.


But there might be the need for re-learning. Which I had to go thru.
The dealer(in freakin FINLAND) made it look easy, while local guys scratched their head and didn't do anything.
He plugged in the service computer with OBD2 port. Then the pc did something for an hour. And that was it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2018 at 1:13pm
cheers for the info, Andywsr.   pump working fine AWD works great, I recently bought the OBDLink MX using FORScan, the codes showing are;     B2477-40  DTCs in AWD   and    U1900-20 DTCs in IC

at the moment I have zero clue to what I am doing, I'm on a slow learning curve, but I think DTC means Diagnostic Trouble Code. I know what AWD is, and IC = Instrument Cluster. 

B2477-40 possible causes (as per google search) 
- Reprogram Module ('Flashing')
- New powertrain Module (PCM) needs programming 
- Incorrect Vehicle Identification (VID) configuration

**I did have a replacement ABS pump and module fitted, maybe this is the module that is requiring one or all of the 3 mentioned above. 

U1900-20 possible causes (as per google search)

Faulty / intermittent ignition switch connection

CAN Bus wiring intermittently open/shorted to power or ground

Faulty / intermittent connection at PCM

Faulty electrical connections at ABS Control Module

Faulty electrical connections at the instrument cluster

Poor connections at the trailer brake controller/trailer connector

** **I did have a replacement ABS pump and module fitted, maybe this is the module that is requiring one or all of the mentioned above, mainly to do with the ABS. 
like I said I am new at this game and IT is not my forte, however I have a fierce will to know and understand, any help/direction will be truly appreciated cheers





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2018 at 1:26pm
thanks for your input Tarmo120
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mimietti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2018 at 1:28pm
Originally posted by tarmo120 tarmo120 wrote:

Originally posted by mimietti mimietti wrote:

martinw, I have exactly same problem. The flanges has rusted together so heavily that I can't disconnect them either. The mechanic said that it might break the propshaft if more force is used. Before next service I plan to inject some rust removal aerosol around the connection so hopefully it will come off. Hopefully it will not break the propshaft...


There should be 2 holes between the bolt holes in the Haldex side of coupling flange. You can use a pin and hammer to take it off. As far as I remember, the holes were not threaded.
Mine was rusty also. You can try to pull the driveshaft to the front, but that means you still need to disconnect the front end of driveshaft.


Yes, noted those holes and mechanic used small pneumatic impact hammer through those holes when tried to release propshaft (front end was disconnected). It did not work. Two shops have tried to release it without success. So it is damn well rusted...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tarmo120 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2018 at 7:05pm
Originally posted by mimietti mimietti wrote:

Originally posted by tarmo120 tarmo120 wrote:

Originally posted by mimietti mimietti wrote:

martinw, I have exactly same problem. The flanges has rusted together so heavily that I can't disconnect them either. The mechanic said that it might break the propshaft if more force is used. Before next service I plan to inject some rust removal aerosol around the connection so hopefully it will come off. Hopefully it will not break the propshaft...


There should be 2 holes between the bolt holes in the Haldex side of coupling flange. You can use a pin and hammer to take it off. As far as I remember, the holes were not threaded.
Mine was rusty also. You can try to pull the driveshaft to the front, but that means you still need to disconnect the front end of driveshaft.


Yes, noted those holes and mechanic used small pneumatic impact hammer through those holes when tried to release propshaft (front end was disconnected). It did not work. Two shops have tried to release it without success. So it is damn well rusted...


How old is your car? Mine is from 2008 and it has seen al kinds of salt, water and other cr*p. And it took some time, but I did get it open. At home in my own garage that is. Big smile
So I assume workshops should be able to do the same.
The tolerances are very tight. Beeing a machinist/engineer, I believe a bit too tight for that purpose.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mimietti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2018 at 1:53pm
Mine is from 2010 and with Haldex IV with bigger haldex flange (because of Powershift) where propshaft flange goes inside a bit. Can't remove the propsahft flange sideways.

Another mechanic who tried to remove it has done same job with similar Kuga so he is very familiar with the design. Unfortunately it is very rusted from our salty roads. 

If you look Volvo forums with same Haldex, there you can find others who have the same problem. They have even used heat to get rust brake loose...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tarmo120 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2018 at 2:23pm
Originally posted by mimietti mimietti wrote:

Mine is from 2010 and with Haldex IV with bigger haldex flange (because of Powershift) where propshaft flange goes inside a bit. Can't remove the propsahft flange sideways.

Another mechanic who tried to remove it has done same job with similar Kuga so he is very familiar with the design. Unfortunately it is very rusted from our salty roads. 

If you look Volvo forums with same Haldex, there you can find others who have the same problem. They have even used heat to get rust brake loose...


Well if there is no pins in the flange, and only bolts are holding. Why not remove bolts, engage handbrake and put it in gear. It should break loose the driveshaft from the haldex...oh wait. Not this would not work because Haldex is not always engaged.
I guess heat is the way to go.
I know very well what you are talking about with salt and rust. I regularly drive to Finland and there is actually less salt than in Estonia. It just makes everything rust so much faster.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote martinw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 2018 at 8:33pm
I did notice 1 (maybe 2?) unthreaded additional holes on the rear of the flexible coupling when we were trying to disconnect the propshaft. Thanks for the hint that these holes may be the answer to disconnecting the prop (and CV joint) from the coupling. Did not see any signs of rust internally when the rubber boot at the end of the prop was pulled back, but I guess rust could have formed from the other side through the 2 unthreaded holes (?) - the exterior of the coupling is very rusty but I thought that fairly normal and due to poor paint protection. Any way the fact that tarmo120 managed to get his disconnected gives me some hope that we can manage it using the pin/hammer method if we give it another go. Will try to get some photos next time we try as it may be useful to other members with the same problem.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tarmo120 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 2018 at 10:25pm
Yes I have disconnected it now about 3 or 4 times. All of those times for filter and oil change. Also I took the Haldex completely apart to check internal wear of the discs and to clean the small mesh filter on the pump.
The drive shaft flange has always been a really annoying thing on this service.
I think I did use the pin/hammer method. And from what I remember, you need to give it a good hit to get it moving. After that initial hard hit, it came out quite good.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote martinw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2018 at 4:02pm
Hi Tarmo, thanks for the reply. Just talked to my mechanic friend (before using his lift) and first question he asked - " is there enough space to get a hammer in there to give it a good hit ?". So have just checked under the car and whatever the position of the coupling/prop (rolled the car back and forth a few times), there is only minimal space (about 5-6cm max) between the back of the coupling and the haldex housing to get a pin/bolt in the holes (no problem). Though not enough space to get a decent-sized hammer head in there and certainly not enough space to move the hammer head and get a swing at it to give a good hit on the pin/bol.
Any tips on how to get round this ? Or, perhaps it was not the pin/hammer method that you used ?
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