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AWD Malfunction / Haldex servicing info

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shanos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2013 at 2:30pm
it has been mentioned that I can remove a fuse and it will turn the car in to a 2wd not sure how accurate this is? or if it would result in better fuel economy lol would be interesting to hear from someone that has tried it... did a mil light come on? can the sensor be switched off in the ecu?
as you said the 4x4 does not get used for much in blighty lol

Had a call back from head office earlier as ford in south woodham advised them I have a warranty direct policy... advised that this has run out and they are going to come back to me.

Also spoke to my garage and they are waiting to hear from ford if any upgraded/modified parts might be available (as are for the freelander)

hooo hummm lets wait and see what happens



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 4x4 andy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2013 at 3:45pm
Hi Shane,
 
 Did you ask the garage if the repair kits available for the Freelander fit the Kuga as I would have thought that the Haldex units would basically be the same.
 
Cheers Beer.
Andy 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote granville_kuga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2013 at 5:02pm
Hi, found this interesting service kit on ebay for haldex, not sure whether freelander uses haldex 3 or 4
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LAND-ROVER-FREELANDER-2-DIFF-REPAIR-KIT-AND-DIFF-OIL-HALDEX-OIL-2006-2012-/230797218076
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote essexeddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2013 at 5:18pm
Originally posted by granville_kuga granville_kuga wrote:

Hi, found this interesting service kit on ebay for haldex, not sure whether freelander uses haldex 3 or 4
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LAND-ROVER-FREELANDER-2-DIFF-REPAIR-KIT-AND-DIFF-OIL-HALDEX-OIL-2006-2012-/230797218076



Think its just the Diff?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shanos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2013 at 11:25am
just had a call from natasha at ford head office 01277 251598
she has informed me that my vehicle is too old and that due to the fact that it is missing 2 stamps in the service book (did admit that all services have been done within millage but not yearly schedule), ford will not be prepared to offer any financial assistance.

she said that she has asked lookers ford in south woodham if they will offer any assistance financialy with the repair but they have said that as I have not been to them for any form of service after the alternator (hmmm that was only about 4 weeks ago) they wont help. they did add that the technicians have not done the repair before, and obviously doubting their technicians ability have asked that it be done by chelmsford or colchester!
she also looked in to my family ownership of fords and agreed that there was a great deal of brand loyalty (new car for three members of the family every 7-12 months on ford ticket over the last 30 years!)

Am I happy... No!

She also advised that ford have not been made aware of any failures of this part before! LIE! I pointed out that several owners on forums have had the very same failures... her reply was that as they were out of warranty the dealers would not have contacted them... I then pointed out that owners have been dealing with the customer relations teams as noted on forums etc... she then admitted that she had been on to the forums after we spoke yesterday and was aware of these!!! soooo more lies!!!

I pointed out that from this point forward there is no need for me to take my car for over priced services... as she had just pointed out that my vehicles ford service history was worth nothing due to the missing stamps... her only come back was that if I have my car serviced by ford I get ford parts and ford trained technicians... plus and she kept on going on about this one!!! AA recovery

What have I learned from this? ford have no loyalty... and that as a customer caring company... they fail miserably!

Will I buy a ford again? Nope! will my family buy Ford again? Nope! 

Will I try and name and shame as much as possible and make the issue known so that others can lobby ford? yes any one wants to help let me know regards shane

So in order for people like Natasha to stop being able to deny that ford are aware of problems why not ring her direct each time a forum member has a problem 01277 251598 or send an email
to Mark Ovenden MD of Ford UK movende1@ford.com 

I will keep you all up to date with how my local garage get on with the repair.

regards shane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote essexeddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2013 at 3:55pm
That's bad and not a good advert for Ford.
I think its been on this site several times about bad customer care by Ford and it will serve them right if they lose customers as a result.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote minimadgriff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2013 at 4:49pm
I agree it is not brilliant and the customer service can be/is shocking but if you think any other manufacturer is any different you are very much mistaken.

They are all the same, some are a little more forth coming with dealer service history but this is rare.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fillco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Aug 2013 at 11:48am

Well that shows how contemptible Ford are. Like you Shane, always driven fords for 43 years with the exception of 3 Months with brand new company car in 1998 a 2.0lt Vectra GL which was awful to drive but was better made than my Mondeo MK1 I gave up, so I gave them it back and bought a Mondeo MK2 myself, the company relented fortunately.

 

Also like you, for 37 years my wife has always driven Fords under my recommendation, and for the past 10 years my daughter too since passing her driving test has driven Ford and do be fair, we’ve had no real issues and replacing their cars more frequent than mine at 3 to 4 years (so thats 6 new Fiesta's bought in pairs), my Mondeo's being at 80,000 mile or so.

 

Ford (Natasha) may indeed say that they aren’t aware of any issues with the Haldex and if this be the case, then surely they should be concerned that one of their units has failed.

 

Its interesting that they dismiss the claim due to missing service stamps when is it true the Haldex isnt part of any service, is this correct?

 

As in my previous post in this topic, I have a choice between a Kuga and CRV, apart from the difference in quality the choice wouldn’t be down to that. The Kuga has accessories though much less than I’m used to on the Mondeo that the CRV doesn’t have, but its whether I want to be loyal to a company who without question relies on its loyal owners than anyone in the press recommending them and yet has contempt for these owners, long loyalty or not, because I’m sure you’ll haves noticed Ford never come top in anything except probably their handling and are never seriously recommended, they also have one of the poorest warranty, so how otherwise do they keep their sales.

 

I hope you get some joy Shane, but I fear that I’ll be going the CRV route by the end of this month sunroof or not. If I do, there wont be a pair of Fiesta Titanium X’s bought in 2 years time too.

 

P

 



Edited by Fillco - 02 Aug 2013 at 11:50am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hamster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Aug 2013 at 12:36pm
Tempted..................................... Smile

But No.

H
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fillco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Aug 2013 at 1:22pm
Originally posted by Hamster Hamster wrote:

Tempted..................................... Smile

But No.

H


I know.. The drive of the Kuga is a Ford through and through.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gazwats Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Aug 2013 at 1:47pm
Originally posted by Fillco Fillco wrote:

Originally posted by Hamster Hamster wrote:

Tempted..................................... Smile

But No.

H


I know.. The drive of the Kuga is a Ford through and through.
Er not quite.

Mr Hamster is a Ford employee who has been known (as he is perfectly entitled to do) to present the Ford side on subject matters similar to this or other threads where KOC members have experienced dealership/head office 'issues'. But occasionally things get a tad emotional/heated as both sides have their own particular view and stance on the subject matter in hand.



Edited by Gazwats - 02 Aug 2013 at 2:07pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fillco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Aug 2013 at 4:42pm
Ah thanks for that, well he can argue the case as much as he wants, fact is fact and if its perception that Ford ignor its loyal owners then they aint doing their job right, but one thing looking at the CRV tells me, is that the Kuga is well overpriced (bet they make them for ten grand). You've got to see a CRV door close to appreciate the difference. Notice I said 'see' as you cant identify the door closing like the Golf advert.

I stand by my The drive of the Kuga is a Ford through and through though, but maybe I should have said handling, the Honda is much quieter engine wise. Cor a lot of 'th's' there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kugey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Aug 2013 at 4:53pm
I have no loyalty to any brand, I'll buy the vehicle based on how well I like it and what sort of price I can get it for.
These major companies hark on about their customer base and how they look after them, in my experience there is no such thing, and this and other car forums prove this point.
Trouble is the people at the top of these companies start believing the bull s--t they come out with.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hamster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Aug 2013 at 11:20pm
Well OK then, one post and that's it. And no arguments!

This is the trouble with customer 'relations'. There is no middle ground, if the company involved, be it a washing machine manufacturer or an automotive manufacturer, roll over and cover the cost of out of warranty repairs then of course the customer is happy. But if they say no then they become the devil itself, there is no middle ground. 

In this case Ford have been described as cavalier and contemptible and we have someone who wants revenge by not buying future family cars as payback, plus they want to spread the 'bad' word to all they meet. Rational? Well you decide.

'Flat battery syndrome' for want of a better prase is easily fixed with a software update and has been for ages. Of course Ford acknowledged it, that's why there is an update.

It matters not that the Haldex unit is not serviceable, sticking to the service schedules, preferably, but not necessarily, a dealer service, is a fundamental 'test' of loyalty and care of ownership. Whether or not the part is subject to a service check may not matter.

SARA, service activated roadside assistance, is a really good deal. It is not 'just' AA recovery but free, with a Ford dealer service, home start, roadside, recovery, European cover, hotel cost and if necessary onward transport. If you need to use it then it can save a fortune and it's free with a service. You also save the cost of annual membership to on of the other breakdown providers.

For the record, there have not been many haldex failures, compared to the numbers out there. Those that have had a failure provoke a sharp reaction and possibly a form post. Not many people regularly post to say their haldex is still fine thanks. I would however be very upset if it were mine.

I fear this is a no win situation, Ford simply cannot meet the out of warranty cost of every failure, if they say no, then we all know what happens.

Lastly, another important thing to consider is that any goodwill from Ford is mitigated by statutory rights and the SOGA. Any action would not be with Ford but with whoever sold the vehicle as this is where the sales contract lies.

I hope this hasn't caused too much offence, especially to fellow human kind.

H


Edited by Hamster - 02 Aug 2013 at 11:26pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fillco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 8:03am

Nice one H, and you what, I agree with you 100% we are talking about failures, unusual or frequent. The reason for my stance is that over the past few years I have seen numerous posting on the Mondeo MK4 particularly on design issues and failures that were either identified and ignored in its development or its production and on one of these particular issues I wrote to Ford technical when I first noticed this issue after owning the car for about 2 weeks. The reply apart from being patronising made me think Ford technical must believe that Ford owners are 3 sheets to the wind. I’ve, or we have had not serious problems with Ford so why should I wish to change and my stance in not buying a Ford wont make any difference to Ford, but it may make me feel better (go on laugh).

 

My reason. I’ve have a Mondeo Mk4, it’s been superb, best car on the road as far as I’m concerned, and but my opinion doesn’t matter to the wide does it.

 

I fully appreciate the position Ford or any car/vehicle manufacturer is in regards warranty claims etc, but on design issues where negligence is clearly seen and yet denied (as though no one outside Ford can think upon these things).

 

The reason for my stance and dilemma as the Kuga is where I want to go is that I don’t feel Ford deserves the sale. Why!

 

The Mondeo MK4, the flagship of the Ford car range.

 

Introduced in 2007 with water flowing into the loading area of the tailgate when opened which required a modification to prevent this, owners of used models had to pay for the modification strips when clearly it was a design issue. I didn’t have this issue with a 2009 model of course.

 

Water retention in tailgate body which subsequently showered anyone under the tailgate when it was opened. Ford didn’t offer a modification but the later MK4.5 etc has drain holes more suitably placed. I’d already modified mine after studying why water was retained and not being drained, wasn’t hard to realise this.

 

Water retention on drivers and front passenger windows when travelling at any reasonable speed in rain due to some kind of vortex. I still have this problem and it is serious as you can not use the door mirrors in these circumstances. This problem simply obliterates any vision advantage of the door mirrors. This was first seen by the German owners after initial introduction of the MK4 and their concern was met with a modified door mirror mount mid 2008 and the new mirror was introduced December 2008 and it seem to have cured it on some cars but not all. The latter was maybe one reason Ford were reluctant to change mine though my local Ford dealer was quite open about this and said if you want them changing we’ll change them bit we are aware it doesn’t cure the problem on them all so I said please don’t bother then. Ford also not admitting the change in door mirror mount as being a design change to cure a problem, but citing that they reserve the right to change a design due to supplier, reduces costs etc. Now my own communication with a Mr Barlow a Ford was incredible. He clearly wasn’t going to admit there was an issue at all, except in unusual circumstances and that he/they were not aware of any reports of issues, I quote, ‘heavy rain and its angle of attack coupled with prevailing wind directions, rain droplets may possibly build up on side windows that are polished to a small degree and at high speeds’. He obviously hadn’t understood the dynamics of what he had written. These conditions seem to manifest and coincide quite regularly it seems as quite often as I like many other owners can’t use the door mirrors in medium to heavy rain. However, Mr Barlow politely reminded me in his reply, that ‘our engineers do not consider this a safety related issue as vehicle speeds should be reduced in heavy rain conditions, and in many parts of Europe this is mandatory’. So if the conditions are prevalent and its not juts heavy rain you have to stay in lane and not over take and to do so would mean dropping your speed to may be 10 to 15mph to allow the water to run down and then you can join all the others drivers doing reasonable speed limits.

For goodness sake was the car ever driven in the wet during development, of course it was so were the problems highlighted, hopefully so, but were they ignored or any changes delayed so it wouldn’t prevent the launch?. Oh, and did the test drivers notice that at 70mph (oddly enough the UK national speed limit) the speed indication 95% obscures the LH indicator tell tale on the speedo. You know these little things that are so obvious.

 

Flat battery syndrome was a term used as the heading on a forum. Software update is fine, but how long has it taken to get this introduced, after many MK4 owners have paid there local dealer to investigate a fault they say isn’t there and were not aware of any problem which in reality is hard to believe particularly when the snapshot of owners on a forum is anything to go by. I’ve never had this problem but very nearly did after noticing my converse display illuminated over night. Unfortunately I didn’t have my test equipment to hand or time so simply disconnected and reconnected the car battery and I’ve not had the issue since anyway.

 

Finally, power steering issues. I’m sure you are aware H, that Mondeo owners have had premature failure of power steering racks while just in and out of warranty and having to pay £1200 or so for the power steering system components to be replaced. Ford categorically deny there is an issue and also deny that they have had reports from owners when evidence on forums say likewise, even though debris is found in the power steering fluid in a sealed system due to some collapsed or warn seals. Several engineers’ reports indicate that poor cleanliness in steering rack assembly leaving grit in the rack as being the cause.

 

It’s the denying there is an issue and the condescending ’what do the owners know’ that gets me, and most of these issues are design/development based but the customer is being used as a test bed. If Ford had confidence in their products they would categorically deny or endorse and be up front with their owners, but they are not. Is the premium of buying a Ford, poor customer/owner relations. I’ve mentioned this earlier, generally no one ever recommends buying a Ford when comparing vehicles like for like, so why do owners buy them, yes because they are good when they are good but failures because of design issues that the customer shouldn’t have to pay for are not good. Simply saying the franchise is responsible for a design issue isn’t really the answer is it? You also, why would you expect anyone to post on a form that their Haldex or other components are fine? They may post that the operation of a component is fine when someone queries its operation but that they have not had a failure as that is taken as de facto.

 

One final observation that really would concern me as a manufacturer, the Ford oval badge, why after over 5 years do they still suffer from water ingress after a year and Ford simply issue a new one that does the same after a year or so and charge a hefty price for a replacements of the company emblem. Complacency, contempt, certainly no compromise.

 

So, yes I want a Kuga, but do Ford deserve the sale?

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hamster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 9:35am
Wow, that was a reply and a half. I remember the Mondeo forum well.

Let's be honest, you may want a Kuga but you distrust the ethos behind the Ford brand, its policies and after sales support. With that in mind you will never get a good ownership experience as you will be looking for the slightest issue and then blame it on design negligence.

Whoever sells you a Kuga will be on a hiding to nothing right away.

Do you deserve a Ford? I hear Honda have some cracking deals right now.

H
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fillco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 10:50am

Thanks H. Well as Honda may be doing good deals (in fact they are exceptional) but its not the car I want, even though the quality compared to the Kuga is quite marked. I’m quite happy to accept design flaws though some on the Mondeo are almost unforgiving and really lack any coherent reason for their presence ‘from a design/development aspect. All designs can be improved no matter how simple and perfect. Trouble is the best development team for Ford like all car manufacturers are the customers but that is impractical on a new design of course.

 

Fortunately I’m not naïve to think that I’ll be rattling the dealers cage if there are issues, as its not their fault, yes you got my drift I’m blaming Ford and their ‘policy’ and if their ethos is to deny when fact show’s different, then they know they are doing it and either they believe the customer isnt very bright or that they know that the customer knows but they (Ford) couldn’t give a damn. The latter is perceived as such of course but the Kuga will still be a great drive.

 

However, that well aside, it doesn’t detract from the pleasure of driving my Mondeo and the fact that when my wife and I tested both the CRV and the Kuga, we both felt more in touch with the seating and drive of the Kuga but we were both impressed with the quality of the CRV, which made us wonder at the list price why the Kuga was approaching the same price range of the CRV and other more expensive makes. The fact I’ve ridden and driven the Audi and BMW equivalents makes me still feel the Ford alternative is better (apart from the stigma of owning either of those makes) and I don’t particularly want a car that attracts attention. If the Mondeo was available in a 4 wheeled drive derivative I’d most certainly be looking at that.

 

Having worked in design of electrical/electronics for the past 20 years, (and worked on the development of the Visteon ‘Speedstart’ in 2003 BTW) and more recently in supplying inverter motor control and GUI’s for the Hybrid vehicle and a transit sector, I’ve become more aware of the constraints put on some sectors of vehicle manufacturers where the car industry seem to be able to be absolved of any design flaw unless its safety related.

 

End of long message.

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 4x4 andy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Aug 2013 at 3:08pm
Hi all,
 
 Getting back to AWD malfunction issue, even although there might have only been a relatively small number of Haldex failures I can't understand why it does not have an oil / filter change  as per the other manufacturers that use the same Haldex units. Even with an oil changes it might still fail, as like anything mechanical it can not be guaranteed to be 100% reliable, but an oil change could still reduce the amount of wear and make you feel you are doing all you can to look after it.
 
 Does anybody know if percentage wise Ford have more failures than VW, Skoda, Land Rover, Volvo ect.
 
Cheers Beer.
 
Andy
 


Edited by 4x4 andy - 03 Aug 2013 at 3:11pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Morph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Aug 2013 at 8:12am
Has anyone contacted Haldex and asked why their units are failing?

After all they produce the thing and must have made it a non servicable unit.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fillco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Aug 2013 at 8:40am
Originally posted by Morph Morph wrote:

Has anyone contacted Haldex and asked why their units are failing?

After all they produce the thing and must have made it a non servicable unit.



Now thats an excellent idea, manufacturers of individual components are usually more concernd than the assembler/POS seller. They may not be too forthcomming in breaching any confidentiality they have with Ford though.
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