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AWD Malfunction / Haldex servicing info

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john71180 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote john71180 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2013 at 7:38pm
Hi Niall
 
Thanks for the help
No i have not got a ODB2 diagnostics sender, but would be willing to get one if it would help. Could you recommend one? as i have an iphone. i am not a techy so any step by step help would be grateful.
Can you plug them in and drive until the fault occurs as it does not bing bong whilst stationary?
I am on holiday this week so have the time to hopefully get to the bottom of this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Niall Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2013 at 10:35pm
Hi again John,

If you search the likes of fleaBay for <obd2 elm327 bluetooth> you will find plenty to choose from.

I have just checked, and there is a very nice 'mini' (i.e. 'low profile') unit on sale (in the UK) for £10.39 (inc. P&P) on a "Buy It Now" deal. Although I cant couch for this particular unit - I would seriously consider upgrading my existing module at that price (the only thing 'wrong' with mine was that it did occasionally whack me in the shins if I didn't think about it as I got in and out of the Kuga).

I haven't yet put my ELM327 back into the new Kuga - but the old one was fitted the day I bought the last Kuga, and was never out of the socket (service visits excepted) until the day I sold it.

I happily streamed data into my Samsung SGS2 phone all the time (using the TORQUE app.)

I can't speak for what apps might be available for the iPhone - I used to own one, until the day I finally had had enough of Steve's Gestapo-Stazi stormtrooper attitude to their customer base, and smashed it to pieces with an 8oz ballpein 'adjuster'.

Try searching iTunes for "pbd2 code reader" - you won't find the TORQUE application (the writer's moral are too high for that!), but someone did mention recently that there are now some apps available to do a similar job.

HTH

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Niall
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hamster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2013 at 10:45pm
Quoted from another post by me. Relevent bit is second half where I refer to a Laptop app instaed of a phone.

'I, actually, am not an Android fan. I know it's trendy to knock the big corporate giants, like Ford and Apple, but Google is just as bad, if not worse in some cases. My first 'Posh' phone was a HTC Desire with Gingerbread on it which I liked a lot but an update to Ice Cream Sandwich effectively killed it. So, a call to Tesco mobile and the contact was ended without charge.

I bought an iPhone 4S and love it.

I could get app replacements for everything apart from 'Torque' but due to uniqueness of the Bluetooth on the iPhone a free ELM compatible app is not available.

So, two solutions, both involving bluetooth on a laptop. Most people now have access to a laptop. Some have bluetooth and if not a dongle is only a few pounds.

1. Use emulated Android software on your laptop with http://bluestacks.com/. It will connect to your Google account and all your apps will be available, including Torque, but on a much bigger screen!!

2. Which I think is the better option. Is to use TouchScan £22.00 from odbsoftware.net. It has more functionality than Torque and is much easier to read and use as it's Laptop based and still uses the ELM type plugin@.

Laptop in N/S foot well and a good long road-test.

H


Edited by Hamster - 16 Jan 2013 at 10:46pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Niall Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2013 at 11:57pm
Hi H,

I haven't tried the ELM connected to a laptop yet (and I have loads available, from tiny Netbooks to massive 'DeskBooks' !!), but you certainly have me 'intrigued'.

However, the biggest advantage of the SmartPhone route is sheer convenience (i.e. shirt-pocket portability). That goes a long way - especially if you intend to use something to constantly monitor the OBD data stream every time you are on the road - waiting for an intermittent fault to appear.

As I believe I (too) have posted elsewhere (and I appreciate we are getting slightly OT here) - the likes of Ford are missing an opportunity, big time, to install a fully user-configurable platform in that 'centre slot' of the instrument binnacle.

Fit a decent touch-screen interface - a BIG one (like 10" or better) and make the OS a user-selectable option. Fit multiple cameras as standard (inside and out). Provide full CAN bus connectivity, and Wi-Fi, and BlueTooth. Record video as you drive (from all angles). Remote surveillance. Remote engine start. Customisable dashboard. Totally flexible SatNav. Either Voice Control over BlueTooth to your mobile, or a slot to even take a mobile SIM card.

This isn't rocket science - this is not even the future. This is right here, right now. And it is 'future proof'. You don't have to re-invent the wheel every three years - you just need to provide the latest hardware and software as a building block.

Would I have considered the Kuga 2 if this level of technology was on offer? You bet! (Oh, but Ford would have had to split the tailgate first - and rubbed the Kuga 2's cojones with DeepHeat to get it to 'look' more the part!!)

Sorry - what were we supposed to be talking about?

G'nite

Cheers,
Niall
2.0TDCi 163PS AWD Titanium X PowerShift; Lunar Sky; Dec '12; Conv-Pack, App-Pack, SD SatNav + Rev. Camera; 8-off 18" Alloys + Continental Summers/Dunlop Winters; Seat Trays; Thingy; KOC TDH; BSG !!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flashingblade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 2013 at 8:09pm
I think all AWD owners should know this...
My 08 plate AWD 2.0 Titanium (48,000 miles) developed a AWD malfunction, the rear wheels were 'dragging' when the steering wheel was on full lock (either direction). The 1st dealer I took it too suggested I needed a new Haldex (£3800!) I say suggested as they couldn't be sure of the cause of the fault but thought a change of Haldex should do the trick!
I contacted Ford Customer Relations and expressed my concern/lack of confidence in the diagnosis. They suggested an alternative dealer. The 2nd dealer confirmed the 1st dealers diagnosis, stating the Haldex unit was not disengaging when the car was turning (I.e. it was putting so much power to the rear it was locking the diff)
I asked FCR to consider covering the cost of repair as Goodwill Warranty...10 days later...the 2nd dealer calls to say FCR will cover 40% of the cost of the parts, however, the 2nd dealer had decided I need not only a Haldex but also a new rear diff, total cost £5200 less Fords contribution, amount to be paid by me £3200!

* Ford have fitted a Haldex that is not part of the annual service, except a cursory glance for leaks
* Ford do not sell any components to repair a faulty Haldex.
* Ford only supply complete replacement units.
* Ford believe the Haldex should last the lifetime of the vehicle but are not prepared to look after their customers when it doesn't

What really annoys me about this is that the DTC code that the diagnostics threw up was P0961, The Haldex unit fitted to a Kuga is the same as the Haldex unit fitted to the Freelander, the units diagnostic outputs are the same as the Freelander (remember Land Rover was owed by Ford when the Kuga/ diagnostic system was developed and they share the same basic platform), I know this because my brother in-law was one of the diagnostic engineers working an JLR at the time, anyway, a P0961 code on a Freelander would produce a recommended change of the oil pressure sensor at a cost of £60. Ford made the decision NOT to invest in serviceable parts on the Kuga Haldex and the subsequent diagnostics on the unit, so unlike the Freelander the Kuga diagnostics produces a change entire unit response as thats the only option in it's "arsenal" of possible causes and sod the cost as it's not likely to break during the warranty period anyway.

I have written back to FCR asking them to reconsider their offer but I get the distinct feeling they don't actually care. I am left with a car with a residual value of £12 to £14,000 that needs £5200 spending on it because their lack of foresight. I bought my car from new in July 2008, I was one of the first to have a Kuga ( at least where I live) and it has been a brilliant car, but if you own a AWD version of the car please be aware you may be sat in a car that will require parts worth a third or more of the value of the car to repair. And you can't take any maintenance/remedial action to avoid it.

I would be very interested to hear from any other Kuga drivers who have had to replace Haldex and/or Rear Diff's. Am I so unlucky? Is this a know fault?

Anne Robinson - "so Mr Ford can you explain to our viewers why you have fitted a part that can't be repaired, doesn't get serviced but costs almost half the value of the car to replace"
Mr Ford - "err, no Anne, I can't"
Me - sadly shaking my head...."neither can I, neither can I"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moondust Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 2013 at 8:26pm
Haldex units i believe are the same type as the Volvo AWD models that also were owned by Ford. Hope you get a satisfactory outcome, how about contacting Haldex! be great if you could swap for a new unit so that they could investigate the old unit which might assist their research and development and product development programmes, then as a goodwill gesture Ford could fit the new one for free!!   Simples...

Edited by moondust - 06 Mar 2013 at 8:27pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gazwats Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 2013 at 8:45pm
09 Zetec with factory fitted: parking sensors, xenon headlights, roof rails, tyre deflation system
Feel like adding your Kuga pictures to Flickr?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tarmo120 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 2013 at 9:21pm
I have also one of the very first Kugas. Manufactured in august 2008. But luckily I have not had any issues with the haldex unit.
Hope it will stay that way. Sorry about your misfortune.
But can't you just change that sensor you are talking about?
Or maybe retrofitting it to the Kuga?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 4x4 andy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 2013 at 9:42pm

Could you not take your car to a Land Rover specialist and ask for advice regarding whether the Freelander oil pressure sensor is compatable with the Ford sensor, which it most probably will be, then you could ask them if they can fit it for you.

Cheers Beer.
Andy


Edited by 4x4 andy - 06 Mar 2013 at 9:43pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flashingblade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 2013 at 9:46pm
Changing the sensor may be an option. The only concern is that there are 2 levels to the Freelander Haldex diagnostics. Level 1 - change the Oil Pressure Sensor, Level 2 - change the ECU on the Haldex. The ECU will cost about £300 but it will be flashed for a Freelander and will, "probably", always through up an AWD Malfunction warning on the dash as there are some configuration differences, but it may be possible to reprogramme it for the Kuga.
 
I could always pull the fuse to the Haldex and run it as a 2 wheel drive (still get a warning message though Ouch)
 
No, the real issue is that Ford have not made any of these alternatives available to the customer (apart from pulling the fuse, as suggested by the 1st dealer). There are 24 parts available for the Freelander Haldex unit, it was designed that way to reduce the posssible warranty costs to Land Rover in the event of an early failure, this approach also provides for a cheaper repair to customers whose cars are out of warranty..win, win.
 
Whereas Fords approach is "oh the spark plugs are broke...let's change the engine", it's both profiteering and dare I say immoral(?)
 
By the way...I'm not a fan of the Freelander (too blocky) but I've done my research!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dozers Dad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 2013 at 9:52pm
Hi 4x4 Andy

You just beat me to saying that.

If it turns out that a £60 sensor fixes the problem then IMHO Ford customer services need a wake up call in the form of a letter from trading standards! In a way I can't blame the dealers because they are passing on the info that their diagnostic machine spewed out. However in the days when garages employed engineers/mechanics instead of fitters. This would never have happened!! ....... Well, almost never!

Edited by Dozers Dad - 06 Mar 2013 at 9:58pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SKYEDOGG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2013 at 7:31pm
In November 2012 our Kuga had a failed Haldex,the car was only 12 months old 18000mls,it was seven weeks before we got our car back,the garage were very helpful (Bristol Street Motors Hartlepool).But Ford were useless.
We have been in touch with FCR about the whole fiasco ,but we have still not received a reply.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote manny13horses Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2013 at 9:06pm
Hi, I have a 2009/58 plate AWD Kuga 2.0 titanium model, which has the AWD malfunction, I am already in talks with ford customer care due to other problems with the car but they don't seem to care!! can I ask if you have gotten anywhere with them? what was the outcome with your car??
thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flashingblade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2013 at 8:58am
Not good news I'm afraid Manny. I ended up between a rock and a hard place. If I didn't accept the dealers diagnosis I risked losing the offer I had from Ford. It resolved with a bill from the dealer of £5200 which Ford contributed £2250, leaving me to pay £2950. They changed the Haldex and the the entire rear assembly including the diff, they believed the faulty Haldex would have damaged the teeth on the the diff. I stand by all the remarks made at the start of this thread, such as, Ford created the situation by fitting a non-servicable part, but they remain happy to wash thier hands when it goes wrong. I will never buy another Ford, a harsh statment, but I feel extremely let down, and I suspect I will not be the only Kuga owner left feeling like this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moondust Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2013 at 12:49pm
Gutted for you mate, there is no Haldex on Kuga 2s its replaced by Fords own system...........lessons learn't perhaps.
 
Rob. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote minimadgriff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2013 at 1:23pm
Haldex has been used for years on many different car brands/models, it is hardly lesson learned. It will be all down to cost as to why they don't use it now. As with everything in life, anything can fail or break.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flashingblade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2013 at 2:56pm
difference is everyone else makes the Haldex servicable!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fillco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2013 at 8:42am

Interesting post this.

 

At the point of ordering for the winter a Kuga or a CRV. Quality of the CRV is way above the Kuga but having driven Fords for 42 years and really had no problems with them, I find that the cavalier attitude and utter contempt Ford have for its loyal owners these days (loyal because you’ll notice nobody ever recommends Ford cars).

 

Driving an 09 Mondeo Titanium X at the moment and while I’ve had no issues and the car is a great drive, some have had steering rack problems due to Ford poor assembly preparation in not cleaning out the racks before assembly, giving premature failure. Ford quite happy to take £1300 for replacement but wont admit there is a quality issue saying that they are unaware of other owners having problems, when its known that many have written to Ford about the issue.

 

The above among other lesser problems on the Mondeo which Ford simply shrug off, such as flay battery syndrome after 2 or 3 days parked up, all due to poor firmware in the central control unit. Some aspect of water on side windows that inhibit good vision in door mirrors clearly overlooked or ignored when the car was test driven, maybe just to get the Mondeo MK4 out on time.

 

It’s the couldn’t give a monkeys attitude to their poor foresight that greatly annoys me and makes me want to change manufacturer. This along with one of the biggest manufactures in the world only offering a skimpy 3 year (look at this closely compared to other manufacturers its not 3 years) and when faults occur that really shouldn’t occur on what should be lifetime of car, they don’t want to know because they know they got it wrong and probably expected the problems to arise.

 

Not shouting Honda, but I’m told of a story where a 7 year old Civic had developed a vibration, Honda dealer said it’s a common problem and contacted Honda. Honda paid for the repair. Also when you get chance, have a look at the new CRV. Hold any door open by 100mm and let go.



Edited by Fillco - 27 Jul 2013 at 5:25pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shanos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2013 at 10:55am
 OuchHi,

Just joined the forum today as I have the same problem, my 58 plate Kuga with just 36,000 and all service stamps in book made the low revs grinding clanking banging noises so I took it to my local garage (cold norton MOT very good garage with great bunch of mechanics and good prices) they took it for a spin heard the sound put it on ramps... nothing lose then he looked at the back end and said... well that will be the cause of the problem right there... pointing to the haldex unit he explained that it was almost the same as the ones that he fixes on Freelanders (difference being that land rover have a serviceable variant of the haldex and have a tb and service parts to fix the unit).

He has advised that at the least the haldex unit will need to be swapped but may be more damage if he finds metal in the oil when he drains it out!

looking at a £3500-£5500 repair! not nice :(

This morning having read through this forum and others to find that it is becoming a common fault and not one that ford customer services are seemingly to bothered in helping with, I fired an email off too Brian Haydon explaining the situation and asking for his help... that was at 9.30am

At about 10.30am I had a call from the exec office who asked a series of questions about the service history etc (car has three stamps in the book covering required services but intervals are not on yearly basis as the car has such low millage, she said that service schedule states years or millage which ever is soonest hopefully they will not hold this against me).

She has advised that she will look in to it and speak with the ford service centre that has up till this point cared for the car as well as the technicle guys and get back to me.

She did add that she is at somewhat of a disadvantage as the faulf has not been seen by an authorised Ford garage (I advised that I am happy to take it to local ford garage for inspection but not to pay for this and she said she would see if required and what could be done).

Fingers crossed now that they are able to do something, my hope is that they pay for the parts and I pay labour  (I will not use the ford garage as their labour rate is double that of my independent)

Will advise what she says later today

regards shane Ouch
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dozers Dad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2013 at 2:09pm
Hi Shane,

Welcome to the forum. I'm sorry to hear that your having Haldex problems. Pls let us know if Ford do the decent thing and help with the repair costs?

It has been debated at great length whether we actualy need the AWD system other than for the 2 weeks of snow a year? It's a question that we'll never all agree on but after reading all these horror stories. I'm glad I opted for the 2WD!

Good luck mate & I hope your next post contains some good news.

Regards Jez
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